Episode Two: Dr. Emily Knox
For the second episode of Liberating Lit, get to know the work of Dr. Emily Knox. Knox’s expansive knowledge and experience with book censorship across American history informs so much of the work being done nationwide by advocates–including current and future librarians working in the field. We’re going deep into the strange place of being a parent watching your child learn to read and the concerns that arise about what that really means and what we think it means.
Emily is interim dean and professor in the School of Information Sciences at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Her research interests include information access and intellectual freedom and censorship. She is a member of the Mapping Information Access research team.
The second edition of her book, Book Banning in 21st Century America (Bloomsbury), was published in January 2026. Her most previous book Foundations of Intellectual Freedom (ALA Neal-Schuman) won the 2023 Eli M. Oboler Prize for best published work in the area of intellectual freedom. She has been interviewed by media outlets such as NPR and the New York Times and also testified before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee on book banning.
Emily previously served on the boards of the National Coalition Against Censorship, the Freedom to Read Foundation, and is a former editor of the Journal of Intellectual Freedom and Privacy.
She received her PhD from the doctoral program at the Rutgers University School of Communication & Information.
Show Notes:
Book Banning in 21st-Century America by Dr. Emily Knox
Maus by Art Spiegelman
Slay The Spire II
Heated Rivalry
Pokemon Go
Outline of a Theory of Practice by Pierre Bourdieu
Alanna books by Tamora Pierce
Transcript:
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (00:01)
Dr. Emily Knox is the interim dean and a professor at the School of Information at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. She's earned numerous accolades, including awards for her excellence in teaching, for being a library luminary, and for her work when it comes to intellectual freedom. Dr. Knox is the author of Book Banning in Twenty First Century America, which saw a second edition published in January 2026.
The book dives into more than two dozen contemporary censorship cases from public and school libraries across the US, exploring where, how, and why they happen, and what those cases say about reading and intellectual development on a broader level. She's also an award-winning author of a foundational text for library school students and professionals about intellectual freedom. Dr. Knox is a sought-after speaker on the topic of book censorship, and she spoke on behalf of access to literature in libraries before the Senate Judiciary Committee in 2023. She's spoken at numerous conferences and events, as well as appeared on radio and podcasts, including local and national NPR shows. I've had the honor of getting to know Dr. Knox first through her work, and I've had the pleasure of being on a panel with her on the topic of censorship in late 2024, as well as on a panel following the screening of the librarians in early 2026.
What's always struck me about her perspective on intellectual freedom is not just how vast it is, but how much she considers other areas of advocacy that tie into it. We can't talk about how great things like state level freedom to read bills are without also asking where and how people in these states who aren't served by a library are being granted better access, for example. Her perspective is not only about seeing and recognizing what's happening.
It's also about asking where and how we can do even better. Thank you so much for joining me, Doctor Knox.
Emily (02:33)
Thank you for having me.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (02:35)
Can you tell me who you are and what you do?
Emily (02:39)
So I'm Emily. I'm a professor in the School of Information Sciences here at the University of Illinois. I've been here for 14 years. I am a former theological librarian. I did that for five years before going back and getting my PhD.
I think those are the main things. I've always really been into thinking about book banning and Banned Books Week and why people don't like authors that I like. Those are my main things.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (03:13)
What was the spark? What got you into advocacy?
Emily (03:18)
My mom was a high school librarian and we always observed Band Books Week. She would bring home the posters and the list and the bookmarks. I actually still have all the lists that she collected from basically the early 80s onward. So that was really the spark, seeing the work that she did and really thinking about it. I loved Judy Blume and wondered why Judy Blume's books were banned all over the country.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (03:52)
So it started when you were really young.
Emily (03:54)
Yes, yes it did.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (03:57)
Something that comes up in your work is your belief that intellectual freedom is a human right and that it is foundational to social justice. Intellectual freedom advocacy, then, is both human rights work and social justice work. Can you talk about that a bit? I think sometimes from the outside, that work meant to end book censorship and protect information access can look niche or highly specialized, but this framing is one that I think really puts just how significant the work is in better context.
Emily (04:57)
So my real bedrock belief is that you cannot have social justice without intellectual freedom. You have to be able to hear and imagine other ideas about how the world could be. And the only way to do that is by having intellectual freedom. Someone has to be able to say, and here is some knowledge that you haven't received before about a different way of the world, a more just world.
And in fact, what you find is that when people start engaging in censorship practices, they often remove books that talk about social justice. Censorship is the tool of people who often want to oppress. So I really believe that they are intertwined. I mean, we can see that right now in what people are going after when it comes to books and what sort of state we are living in. They're really books that are often talking about thinking about the world in a different way, often in a more just way.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (06:15)
Absolutely agree. And I just love that reminder that this work serves such a huge purpose and has always served such a huge purpose. I would like to tap your extensive knowledge and background of book censorship. What are one or two historic or contemporary examples of book censorship that everyone should be familiar with because they're helpful in contextualizing our current moment?
Emily (06:43)
So the first one to really think about is Island Trees v. Pico. Let me just read the list of books. I'm getting this from Wikipedia of the books that were removed in the Pico case. It's Slaughterhouse Five, The Naked Ape, Down These Mean Streets, Best Short Stories of Negro Writers by Langston Hughes, Go Ask Alice, Black Boy, A Hero Ain't Nothing But A Sandwich, Soul on Ice, A Reader for Writers, and The Fixer. What many of those books have in common is that they are what we would call diverse books. This happened, what, 40, 50 years ago with Island Trees and it is still the same types of books that are being targeted.
I actually wrote about this. I'm a former editor of the journal for intellectual freedom and privacy and I had never looked at the books for Pico. I had just known like, you know, Pico is a case that I'd heard of. Actually, Steven Pico called me a couple years ago. It was very fun to talk to him. And looking at the books, I'm like, wait a second. These are the books that are showing up on the lists today. So to me, that is one of the most important cases and highly contested cases. I can't remember what the legal term is on it, but it's sort of like what the most recent Birthright Shedishem case came up with, which was a strange conglomeration of who agreed with what in the Supreme Court. But it most importantly held that the library is different from the curriculum, and that has just been very important to think about as we move through time.
I can think about a lot of historical cases. You can go way back. I always talk about translating the Bible into English and how people were burned at the stake for that because I think people forget that, in fact, this has been going on for a long time. There's always something that people are upset about and books are very powerful objects. People were extremely irate over the idea of translating the Bible into languages that people could understand.
But I'd say the most other most impactful work challenged right now is Maus. When that happened in Tennessee, it was so bizarre. Maus is one of the most impactful graphic narratives that has ever been produced. I remember reading it, I think, in college. The way that Spiegelman does this story is so amazing. And I remember hearing about that case in Tennessee and just being like, what are you doing? And then it turns out they were talking about like the picture of Spiegelman's mother committing suicide. And you're like, This is something that actually happened. It's true. What do you want?
I think, is a case that has really resonated with me over time.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (10:24)
That one, it seems like it does a tremendous job of really showcasing what happens when you decontextualize information, when you pull it out of the context of the story, as well as when you pull it out of context of the bigger historical moment, particularly in Maus.
Emily (10:43)
Yeah, and also, Maus is so important, so I'm just gonna tell you my favorite thing about Maus. So, Art Spiegelman's wife is Françoise Mouly, who is the cartoon editor for The New Yorker, which is like an incredible job. And in Maus, they're arguing about whether or not she should be shown as a mouse because she converted to Judaism. But you see that she is already shown as a mouse as they're having this argument in Maus. And that is the thing, it has all of these layers to it, right? That in fact, he's using the medium of the cartoon, right, to tell this story that it actually has many different layers.
The other thing he doesn't do a hagiography of his father. His father was quite racist and he shows that very clearly in the story. And when I think about the depth that you get from this actually very accessible story, it's perfect for high schoolers to read because you really get all of these different layers. As you read it again as you get older, you see all these other things that come up in it. And so when that happened, I was like, y'all just haven't even read this. And that doesn't, isn't always true. Sometimes they have read it, but I'm like, y'all clearly have not read this because this is not the response you have to Maus if you read it.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (12:22)
Who do you learn from?
Emily (12:27)
That's a good question.
I really learn from my colleagues a lot. I think we have the greatest school here. I have, I don't know, 79 colleagues who come from many different backgrounds and I really try to pull on a lot of what they have to say.
I learn a lot from my family. I'm a stepmom and I'm also an aunt. Watching kids learn how to read and become different types of readers has been one of most amazing things. They have really helped me think about what reading is and how we talk about it and how it's this almost magic thing that happened.
I was there the day my stepdaughter learned how to read. I don't know if you've ever seen it. It is amazing. She was trying to get the words that you just have to memorize, you can't sound them out. And so she was working on that. Then all of sudden one day it just clicked and she just read a book out loud to us. And I was like, this is why reading is so important. Because once she was able to do that, she was five, this whole world opened up to her.
And actually that's quite frightening, right? You have to think about it like, well, now all these books are around. All of our books were not appropriate for five year olds, you know, but she can read them. They're there. She may not understand them, but now she has this skill. And that actually has informed my understanding challengers more, what they're referring to.
I have another story about that, which is like, I read Peter Rabbit to my nephew. He loved Peter Rabbit. I don't know if you've read Peter Rabbit, but Peter Rabbit is a terrible bunny. His mother says, don't go in Farmer Greger's garden. And so I was reading it to Adam and I stopped.
And I was like, Adam, do not do what Peter Rabbit does. I was like, wait, this is what happens with challengers when they're reading. They actually. get this feeling of like, I don't want my kid to do this. I said, Adam, if your mother tells you not to do something, don't do it. Be like Flopsy Mopsy and Cottingdale and do the right thing. It was, I mean, it's a lower stakes, but I was like, this is the feeling.
This is the feeling.
The other thing I think about is that he was like three. He looked at me and he's like, I just like this story Aunt Emily. Like, read me the story. This is a great story. It's so much fun. He was looking at it like an adventure tale. And I was thinking of it as a morality tale. That taught me a little bit more about thinking about reading and the people who are worried about the power of books, how they think about it, why they react so strongly to these books that they feel are immoral or whatever.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (16:33)
I really appreciate your sharing those stories and those perspectives. Cause I think sometimes people who aren't around young people who are learning to read kind of forget the challenge you as an adult can be in in that position. You know, I think about that as my daughter's five, so she's still pre reading, but she very much will, you know, pick up a book and tell the story to herself. And I think often of when she finally gets it, right? I am going to be a little bit more, I don't want to say fearful, that's not the right word, but like, am I going to pay more attention to the books that she picks up at the library? Or will I be more willing to sit down with her with those books and talk through anything that comes up? And just as you said, sometimes maybe that's not necessary either because she just wants a fun adventure story and is not thinking, I'm gonna go be Peter Rabbit in the garden, right?
Emily (17:31)
Yes, yes. And also kids have different tastes. So my stepdaughter likes reading scary books, which there's no way I would have read scary books. I still don't read scary books, but she likes being scared, you know? And so, you know, you have to find age appropriate scary books, but they're out there. They're spooky stories, you know, for she's 11 now. And, you know, It's not what I would pick and sometimes I look at them like, I don't know. But it's fine.
And my stepson, actually he just reads adult books. He's 15 and he's read adult books for a very long time and I actually get the same books for him that I get for my husband and myself. We all read fantasy. So, you know, every kid is different.
The other thing that challengers don't seem to grok very well is that, you know, different kids mature at different rates and you don't even necessarily know your kid best. Your kid knows themselves best and you kind of sometimes have to follow along with where they are when it comes to reading and in order to do that you have to have many different books available for all the different kids that are in your school, at your public library, wherever.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (18:59)
And also when it comes to your family, right? Being clear and building this sort of relationship with your kids, with the young readers in your life that like they can come to you with questions or to talk about things or you read things together and you know, building that openness and also trusting. I mean, one of the things that comes up in library circles a lot, and I believe just from my own experience is that a kid who isn't ready for a particular book will put it down. They'll start it and be like, this is not for me and put it down. I think when you are such an engaged part of their reading life, they develop those skills more quickly and trust themselves through the process.
Emily (19:47)
Actually, as you say that, I realize that part of the problem is that adults don't always do that.
So, you know, there is the DNF phenomenon with book people, but something about as we go through school, there's a feeling that if you pick up a book, you have to finish it or something. But sometimes a book isn't for you, no matter how old you are.
The thing about the book people, which I really need to write an article about, the book people, and the way that they talk about books is that they're very clear on what they like and do not like when it comes to books. And in many ways, we also have to trust kids, even though they are not as mature, to also know what they like and do not like when it comes to books.
That's really something I've been thinking about a lot. You know, the language that's used with books, especially in places like Goodreads and BookTok and these sorts of things, like how often definitive it is and the clarity of the trope and how they are used. They have these somewhat violent metaphors that are often used with books about DNFing and that sort of thing. It's hauling books, all those sorts of things. I've been thinking about that a lot recently.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (21:19)
I've never thought about the violent language there. I cannot wait to read this article when you write it. because it is very much a thing I think about, but also have not had the language to describe it or experience it. And, you know, I say that as somebody who's written about books on the internet for years and years and years and am afraid to be like, mm, not for me, you know. but also those librarian skills come in where you're like, it's not for me, but I see who the reader is for this and who would love it, right? And that's a totally different way of approaching reading and your own reading life than it is to be like, this is terrible, nobody should read you know, like all those things that come up that really are an opportunity to reflect on your preferences versus necessarily the book itself.
Emily (22:04)
This is such a thing that I'm so glad you brought this up. So people often wonder, what do you learn in library school? And I'm like, you learn to put yourself outside of yourself and think about the information needs of another person from that person's point of view. So Reader's Advisory is all about not what I think is the best book, right, but what is your mood? What other books has the reader liked? And it's a true skill that I think people think that they have and seems like it would be easy. But often what we do when we recommend books is we recommend books that we like. And so training people to think in a different way about the reading experience and reading practices that people have and how they understand reading–that is one of the things that we do when you get the MLS and is very important.
So I just want to highlight that as dean and Dean of the school. Know that's one of the things that you'll learn in our program.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (23:18)
I think it ties into the conversation about censorship and book banning too, because librarians who are doing their job are not handing kids books left and right. They're handing kids the books that those kids are looking for, that they're asking for, that they prefer. And so much of the rhetoric that librarians are doing X and Y and Z, it's like, well, that's a fundamental misunderstanding of what a librarian does when they recommend a book to a kid or they provide resources to a kid.
Even when it comes to writing a paper, they have to write a report on whatever topic. There's a reader's advisory discussion that goes on. There's the assessing of what their information needs are, what their reading level is, what their skills level is. Like it is not a, you know, here's this book, you have to read it. It's I think you'll like this book because you like X and Y and Z, because you like this movie. It has that same sort of action and adventure, that humor, right? It's is a skill that takes development and you start the process in library school, but you continue it when you're actually working in the field and you meet real people who have real needs.
Emily (24:31)
Absolutely, and I think about the difficulty of being a school librarian. So the age ranges in an elementary school, five to 11, right? I mean, that's so, the changes in kids and those ages. And then you go to middle school and you have what? 10 to 14. And then you go to high school and you have 13 to 18, adults, right? Thinking about what is needed in your collection to, you know, make sure that all of the different kids have the books that they would like to read, also to support the curriculum, also to support the work that the teachers are doing, right? I mean, that's a lot. It is a lot. There's no way that there won't be books that somebody is going to be upset about because just by definition, all of those kids are at very different stages of development.
And yes, the skill is, you get the foundation in your program and then you go out and you learn about what the kids are reading and what the different things they're thinking about and all of the different programs that you might have. That develops over time, that expertise really develops over time and can be quite difficult because trends change as you're going through your career.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (26:10)
And you just sometimes are so surprised by the things that the kids are super into. You're like, huh, that was popular 20 years ago. I didn't realize it was having a resurgence. Or there's something, even if you think you know everything that's coming out, you'll be surprised what pops up because young readers are exposed to all kinds of different media that we as adults don't necessarily ever encounter in our lives. And you know, the job is respecting what they're interested in.
Emily (26:40)
Yes. Yes.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (26:44)
What keeps you going?
Emily (26:50)
I would say what keeps me going is that I actually really like my topic. I mean, it seems kind of silly, but I love that people get so upset about books. I know that seems totally out of my field. I'll tell this story about when I went down to Metropolis, Illinois and saw the book hearing. It wasn't even a book hearing there. It was actually about the director. It was so great, you know, that the whole tiny town showed out to their little Carnegie library and were just really getting into it about the importance of the library, the importance of books, well I don't like these books– like the whole thing is amazing to see.
Civic discourse, not civil discourse. It was not civil in any way, you know, but the civic discourse that happened, it was truly democracy in action. There was a board, they were talking about the library director, the people of the town showed up, there were some kids there, there were signs, there was a protest, people talked from various points of view, the board deliberated, they came to a conclusion.
I mean, the fact that it was about like books in general, that was actually about the library, the library as a place of learning and what should its character be. And the basic thing that the people of Metropolis decided was that it shouldn't be a Christian library. And it was sort of amazing to me because I was a theological librarian and worked in a Christian library. Our library was very different from the library this woman had basically developed in the public library down there, but the people of Metropolis said, our library is supposed to be a place for everybody. There's not supposed to be prayer in our library. There needs to be books on Halloween, like all sorts of things.
And that really keeps me going, that there are so many people who care about their library, even if they don't ever go.
I see all these articles right now about how we're not reading and I'm like, I think people aren't understanding what reading is. Like, it's based on this idea that like reading means picking up a physical book or maybe my Kindle and reading it back to front and if that's true, then I don't read very much because I actually do most of my book reading through audiobooks. I pick up a book every so often. The only time I do the kind of reading that they're really talking about is if I'm writing a paper or if a new book on my topic has come out. And then I sit, I read, I highlight, I take notes, that sort of thing. Like that's just a completely different type of reading than most people are interested in.
In fact, people are reading all the time. They might be reading shorter things. But also sometimes when there's a long form article that's out, I put on Speechify and have it read it for me. While I'm cooking dinner, or not, don't cook dinner very much, but while I'm playing a video game or something like that.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (30:39)
Yeah, there's so many different ways to take in reading. And that discourse frustrates me, but I also really appreciate that what you said before about the discourse that happens over libraries helps keep you going. It's actually really giving me something to chew on with the discourse over what is and isn't reading, is that we are talking about reading. Like reading is a topic that so many people want to talk about and have strong, sometimes incorrect opinions about, but like they're talking about it.
Emily (31:13)
Yes, yes, it is very important. This book banning surge is centered on our public institutions, and so we are actually talking about support for our public institutions. What does it mean to have a taxpayer-supported library, taxpayer-supported schools? How do we think about that as a shared resource in our community? And those are important conversations to have. I don't think they should be threatening conversations, which is how they often come out. But the fact that they become threatening conversations actually tells you how important those institutions are.
That people get to the point that they are sending death threats to people who are public school teachers, which seems kind of crazy to me, really tells you that those are very important institutions. They think they have some sort of influence over what the next generation will look like, which is true. Of course they will.
If you disagree with it, though, the way to respond is not through threats.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (32:38)
Absolutely.
One tactic that we have seen when it comes to protecting the right to read is anti-book ban/ freedom to read bills being passed at the state level. You and I are both Illinois residents. And while our state was the first to pass such a law, we've talked about how and where this law and similar ones fall short. It's not necessarily that they're bad, even if they're symbolic, as that symbolism really does matter.
But something you've brought up is that laws like these don't help those in small and rural communities where there's simply no library to use. And the same goes that they don't help those in schools where there is no school librarian or no library at all. We could also point to the application of such laws in prisons, where those on the inside remain the largest population impacted by censorship. Where and how do you see such laws being an opportunity for advocates to push for better and where and how do we go beyond these freedom to read bills that protect access to then expanding access to even greater populations?
Emily (33:48)
So let me talk a little bit about the un-libraried, because that's how I kind of think about them. It is very strange for me because I grew up in Maryland where everybody has access to a library because the libraries are done on the county level. It is when I moved to Illinois, you know, we have these tiny, tiny library districts, Urbana and Champaign have separate library districts, even though they share a catalog, and there are people outside of the Urbana and Champaign libraries who either have to pay to be in the library or they get taxed in a different way to be part of the library system.
I don't think this is a good system. I just don't. I think a library is something that everybody should have access to across the nation. I don't know what the best way to do that is. There are a lot of entrenched interests in the way the system works now, but I do think it is to the detriment of many people who are outside of the system.
When it comes to schools, I have actually made it part of my strategic goal in this position to get a credentialed librarian in every school in Illinois. Librarians, credentialed school librarians, make a difference for every single kid. You know this is true because wealthy people always have credentialed librarians in their schools all the time. They would never have someone who is not a credentialed librarian in their schools, and if that's true, then you know it's important. That's how I think about it.
We've been working with Chicago Public Schools to provide programs for credentialed teachers to become school libraries and to get the school library licensure. I'm hoping to move that down into central and then southern Illinois. To me, all kids deserve the best education possible and that includes a school librarian.
It takes resources. That's really the main thing is that, you know, communities have to believe that it's important. I think that's just an argument that we're having across the country right now about what we owe our fellow humans? I believe we owe our fellow humans healthcare. We owe them an education. We owe them safety. We owe them libraries. I think that's just as important. I don't think you can actually have a safe and educated community without. I think it is really just part and parcel of having that.
It is a struggle because of the way that we think about taxes in this country, the arguments over property taxes. I just fundamentally don't think our tax system is set up very well. I don't think that people's education should be linked to property taxes. There's a reason why. We can go back over history and see why that is true. But it purposely leaves some people behind. And I think that that is wrong.
So my kind of hope is that we'll go through all of this strife on both the national and state and local level and that something better will come out of it. So this goes back to my thing about social justice. So perhaps we can move to a VAT taxing system instead of income because a lot of people don't have income, right? Like, thinking about income tax. There are people who don't work for income and then they're taxed somehow, but not necessarily for the goods that they use, which is how people are taxed in other places. The idea that your schools are based on the house that you're in, the land that the house is on, more or less, doesn't really make sense. There are other ways that we can think about how we provide for our children to have good schooling.
You know, I think about like Head Start, the work that Madami has done to help three year olds, you know, and I'm like, we can all do it. We can all do those things. And to me, a library is part of that. Or a good bookmobile, branches, all sorts of things to bring the books to you. To me that's part of a healthy democracy. So sometimes people think like, well, how do libraries affect democracy, you know, and all this. I'm like, they are democracy in action because you're saying that this good can be provided for all for the demos. And that is the importance of libraries.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (40:16)
What kind of self care do you practice?
Emily (40:20)
I play a lot of Slay the Spire II. I thought, how should I actually answer this question? What I do is I need to walk more. I need to do all those things. But what I actually do is at the end of the day, I put on my headphones, listen to an audiobook and play, say, Slay The Spire II, which is in beta on Steam. So that's what I do. I love playing it and I love listening to my audiobooks. I'm going through a huge romance phase right now. I was in a fantasy phase which moved to romance when Heated Rivalry came. And I was like, I forgot how much I love romances and they have improved so much in the past five years. So that's what I do, too. And I play Pokemon Go, that's the other thing.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (41:24)
I love that answer so much because I think sometimes the idea of self-care becomes this, you know, show of extravagance or like a dream of the impossible, I guess sometimes when really it is as basic as I put on my audiobook and I play my games.
Emily (41:45)
Yes, yes. And I love it. I love doing those things. They really help me recenter in the evening and just think about other things than whatever is going on in our country or the world.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (42:03)
What advice or thought would you want to impart on somebody just getting into literary advocacy?
Emily (42:12)
Wow, that's a great question. Support your library, get a library card. You don't have to go to the library. You just like Libby and Hoopla, but it makes a difference if more people have a library card. So whenever I move somewhere, I get my library card. So just go get it. Even if you don't use it, it's totally fine.
Read. Support authors, support mid-list authors. This is something I just feel really strongly about. I've been moving towards supporting more self-published authors. I'm in a better financial position, and so I can buy their books and I really like these books. They're not the greatest books written ever, but they fulfill a certain want I have for light fiction. My feeds are now working so that they're just sending me like all of these authors and I'm now in a position to support them.
Support diverse books, I think. So like actually the mid-list authors who are diverse. So ones you've maybe heard of a little bit. Just go out and make sure that you're supporting their books.
If something happens in your community, show up. Show up at the board hearing. If you hear some teachers being targeted, some librarians, just show up. It makes such a big difference. You don't even have to say anything, though I encourage you to say something. Bring your kids with you to those meetings.
Really, I think those are the most important things. Get out there, if you can, run for office, run for your school board, run for your library board. Just consider if you have the bandwidth to do it to actually put yourself out there, right?
I've actually been saying this to my fellow Gen Xers a lot. We're kind of getting skipped over, going boomer to millennial. We are ready, we are the age where we should be doing this. So when at the last election, I was like, you know, I'm going to join my local ACLU steering committee. It's me, boomers and millennials, and I'm like, this is not good. My fellow GenXers, we need to really step up a bit. We're saying that we want better decisions to be made for our country, for our communities. That means that we have to help those decisions come to fruition. That means being in places of power. A lot of us are very reluctant to take on power ourselves, and we need to start doing that.
Organization is not uncool. This seems to be a major thing that people are like, well, you know, they all met on Facebook. Like that's how the Moms for Liberty get together and like, you know, show up together. Anybody can do that. You can start a page. Go ahead and start a Facebook page, right? This is happening, we need to get together and do this together, because the other side is willing to do that. They do not care if it's uncool. So be uncool. Those are sort of my big things about literary literature.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (46:29)
I'm gonna ask a similar question, but what advice or thoughts would you wanna impart on those who've been doing this work for a long time and are maybe feeling burned out, tired, exhausted, pessimistic?
Emily (46:41)
You come first. If you can't do it anymore, don't. Sometimes I see Amanda Jones and I'm just like, I don't know how she does this. I think it's just her personality, you know? Like, she's like, I'm at my job and I am just doing my thing and you can be mad at me if you want to. I think it is okay if people are mad at you.
That's actually something I've had to learn as interim, in this intern dean role. Like it is really okay. If you are doing your best and you know, then you realize, you know what, I need to step away. That is really, that's okay too.
Other people will step in when people are feeling burnt out. You don't have to take it all on yourself. There are other people who can take things up. You come first.
You and your needs actually come first before whatever fight might be out there.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (47:53)
My last question is this one. Because this is a podcast about liberating literature, and I use liberating in all senses of the word, I end each conversation the same way by bringing it back to books. Can you talk about a book that's been influential in your life? This could be a book that inspires you or it's a story that's just stuck with you for some reason.
Emily (48:16)
So I thought I would try to say something cool, but I'm actually gonna name the actual book that has really influenced my research, which is Bourdieu’s Outline of a Theory of Practice. I know, like, I just love Bourdieu, and I was thinking about why, and it's because I think his theory helps us understand both how we are constrained and how we work within those constraints. At the same time, there are these structures around us that only let us see certain things, understand certain things, but we also have our own agency within those structures.That's actually how change happens, is the agency that comes with pushing against those structures.
I haven't read it in a long time, but it actually, and I don't bring it up when I talk about my research a lot. I often don't do the theory part because most people aren't all that interested in it. But it was a book that was profoundly influential on me and then discovering the rest of his work. Thinking about things like fields is this big thing, but especially the literary field, where winning awards does not necessarily mean that you get a lot of money. And in fact, the more money you have in the literary field, the less likely you are to win an award. The best person to think about that is Stephen King. His work really helped me understand little things that I couldn't understand about our world and then expanding it out from there to thin, what about change? What about how people think about books? What about how people think about the library? So that is really one of the most influential books in my life.
Other than that, my favorite author is Tamora Pierce and the Alana books. Truly, those are my absolute favorite books. I think about them all the time and how important it was when I started reading them. I read the first book when I was eight years old, and I hadn't realized how much influence that book had to really say that as a girl, as a woman, you can really do whatever you want. It may be difficult in some ways, but if you stay true to yourself, you'll end up in a better place. Things won't always work out, but it's important to be true to yourself and to have a goal and try to meet it.
Kelly Jensen/Liberating Lit (51:24)
Think of no better way for this particular episode to end given everything that we've talked about than on that note. So thank you so much for joining me on the show. Just know how much I appreciate and respect your work and know how many other people feel the same way and are excited when they get the chance to not just encounter it, but to meet you and and talk about what you do and and the work that you're doing.
